Old man yells at cloud. The cloud yells back.
  • Vinstaal0@feddit.nlEnglish
    2·
    7 days ago

    All prices are excluding VAT as VAT differs per country. Growing up means understanding Americans maybe had a point with this one. Lastly, no referral links will be provided.

    There are rules and regulations set into place in the EU that the prices including VAT should be the same for consumers. Which means that there shouldn’t be a difference in price even though there is a difference in VAT rate. When dealing with B2B then it is a different story, then you should exclude the VAT.

    It is also not the end consumers problem that the VAT rate is higher, same as that it isn’t our issue when the profit tax is higher.

    • boonhet@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      1·
      6 days ago

      There are rules and regulations set into place in the EU that the prices including VAT should be the same for consumers. Which means that there shouldn’t be a difference in price even though there is a difference in VAT rate

      Hetzner definitely shows different price when you change VAT rate. So does Netcup. OVH just shows price without VAT. How would you keep the price same regardless of VAT rate anyway? Then you’d instead have to charge businesses of different countries a different amount essentially, meaning you’re the one discriminating by country. No, you have one price and then different countries add VAT differently to it. Do you have a link to those rules and regulations?

      There are, though, cases where it’s OK to just charge your local VAT rate for everyone, rather than the customer’s local VAT rate. I only sell within my own country anyway so I’m not up to date on that - I believe it’s physical goods rather than digital services?

      It is also not the end consumers problem that the VAT rate is higher

      It sorta is, we’re the only ones paying it in reality?

      Between B2B and B2C sales I’d get the same amount of money for the same invoice and have to pay VAT on it either way, which the customer pays to me, but the B2B customer gets a VAT refund and the B2C customer does not. Similarly, on any B2B purchases I make, I get a VAT refund myself. Nobody refunds VAT to me if I buy things as an end consumer.

      • Vinstaal0@feddit.nlEnglish
        1·
        5 days ago

        It has been a while since I read the law’s myself (I stay updated based on the changes from my collegues who are tax specialists). Which does mean that I can also be mistaken, but as far as I know the unfair pricing goes over this https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treatment/unfair-pricing/index_en.htm, but yeah it is for B2C mainly and not for B2B. You look at if you are majorly B2B or B2C and list your prices based on that.

        It is also hard to do this properly, in the end you cannot ask somebody from a 3rd world country to pay 60 euro for the same (digital) game as somebody in the EU, but in the end the costs for the seller are basically the same.

        It sorta is, we’re the only ones paying it in reality? Well consumers don’t pay it to the tax offices, nor do they do the reporting. It is a tax based on the added value the company brings to the end product. If you buy stuff for 100k excluding VAT and sell it for 200k excluding VAT ou pay 42k minus 21K aka 21K VAT. Which is 21% of your “profit” (in NL). It is just that it is a transparant tax and easily calculated that the end consumer also pays the 21% VAT rate. At the same time end consumers also pay for the profit tax, wage tax and other forms of tax that a company has to pay, but those aren’t as easely calculated.

        • boonhet@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          1·
          5 days ago

          I suspect you mean this one

          As an EU national, a trader cannot charge you more when you buy a product or service just because of your nationality or country of residence. Some price differences can be justified if they’re based on objective criteria and not just on nationality. For example, differing postage costs may mean you pay more for delivery in one country than in another.

          But they aren’t discriminating by your country of residence. The PRICE that the vendor charges is the same regardless of where you’re from. Your own country charges VAT, through the vendor. That’s on top of the price.

          Well consumers don’t pay it to the tax offices, nor do they do the reporting

          Yes, but it’s a direct line item when they buy something. And only consumers don’t get it back. It is a tax on consumers specifically.

          • Vinstaal0@feddit.nlEnglish
            1·
            2 days ago

            Yes, but it’s a direct line item when they buy something. And only consumers don’t get it back. It is a tax on consumers specifically.

            Except it isn’t, yes it works out like that, but legally it is a tax on the value added by the company. It is just passed on to the consumer by 100%, but that is the same for any tax.

            Just like with any value added, sales or revenue tax it will be passed onto the consumer 1 to 1, but it doesn’t change the fact it is designed as a company tax and tax systems are based around that fact.

            Only if everybody could keep a proper bookkeeping you could go to a system where your find a system that taxes only the businesses and the consumers get it back, but in the end the companies would just increase the prices and pass it onto the consumers anyway.

            You can read the Dutch law https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0002629/2026-01-01#HoofdstukII and it basically only speaks about companies.

            But they aren’t discriminating by your country of residence. The PRICE that the vendor charges is the same regardless of where you’re from. Your own country charges VAT, through the vendor. That’s on top of the price.

            Technically they are, again not the consumers issue that the VAT rate is higher. If the company doesn’t need to pay VAT (because of the revenue being so low in that year) then they don’t have to pay VAT, but it doesn’t change the price of the product you buy, at least not in basis. The suggested retail price stays the same, the price for digital goods stay the same.