āAIā is great.
Generative AI is a scam.
The best thing I can say about Generative AI is that eventually the bubble will collapse.
How do you differentiate AI and Generative AI?
Do you mean Generative Pre-trained Transformers (GPT) as in what we see with large language models?
The investment bubble may collapse on them, but the usage isnāt going anywhere but up. I donāt know why you think itās some sort of scam. If it was such a scam, companies that have been using it for two years already would be throwing it in the trash and instead theyāre buying up more capacity.
I have legitimate business use cases for it today, and my company canāt get hands on hardware or even available compute from the big players because itās in such high demand.
It used to be that most of the compute was going to training models, but that hasnāt been the case for a year now. The majority (and itās increasing fast) is inference at this point and while it doesnāt live up to the āIt will do your entire job and get you firedā itās definitely useful in many situations.
Historically, AI is an umbrella term for anything and everything around using machines to make decisions. Spam detection, video game adversaries, explosive detection, and the old Xbox Kinect are all different things that have used artificial intelligence for 10+ years before GenAI became practical.
If youāre interested in learning more, all this stuff falls under the umbrella of āmachine learningā.
I was looking for this particular users idea, not the broader definition. I work in this field and am well versed on ML.
How do you differentiate AI and Generative AI?
So, back in 2005 or so when I was in college, I took a class called āIntroduction to Artificial Intelligenceā. In that class, among other things, I learned about the A* algorithm. If youāve ever played a game where an NPC approaches your character while having to take into account obstacles or differences in terrain or some such, that used the A* algorithm. (For instance, escort missions in Skyrim.) Itās quite a versatile algorithm, in fact, and can be used to optimize a lot of different sorts of things.
And if I were asked to come up with two algorithms more dissimilar from each other than any other pair of algorithms, the algorithm behind LLMs and the A* algorithm would probably be a pretty good guess. The A* algorithm requires no training. LLMs do. It can be easily understood by a āperson having ordinary skill in the artā (PHOSITA) of coding how the A* algorithm came up with any particular answer it gave just by tracing through the code. With LLMs, thereās no real way to figure out exactly why it produced the particular output it did. (Asking āwhy did it do this particular thing?ā is like asking āwhich specific rep at the gym made you able to perform that 500lb dead lift today?ā.) The A* algorithm is for a pretty specific use case: finding the āleast expensive pathā from A to B (potentially in the presence of obstacles or differences in traversing cost on different path segments). LLMs are aimed at anything you might want to throw at them. And yet, both are āAIā (somehow).
Now, I donāt know that I have the most precise definition of āGenerative AIā, and I havenāt researched the following bullets enough to be sure about all of them, but:
- I donāt know that the term āGenerative AIā is even very precisely defined. Itās probably valid to consider it more of a āmarketing termā than something that actually has a direct connection to the algorithms behind it. (Like, for instance, the term āEnterprise Softwareā.)
- It seems like the term āGenerative AIā is ānewā. So at very least any technology called āAIā before the term āGenerative AIā came up is not āGenerative AIā.
- āGenerative AIā seems to mostly be used for things that try to be as ābigā and āgeneral purposeā as possible. Stuff that tries to solve every problem, not just one niche of problems. (On that basis, I would probably generally exclude narrowly-focused SLMs from the definition of āGenerative AIā.)
- In Korea, the āAI bubbleā seems more focused on bipedal robots. I donāt know that Iāve heard that called āGenerative AIā, though, so Iād generally tend to exclude it.
- I think it could be reasonable It strives for being as general-purpose as
But perhaps more precisely, āGenerative AIā pretty much seems to refer to LLMs, Stable Diffusion, and maybe the DALL-E family of image generation algorithms. (If thereās anything else that refers to, Iām not familiar with it.) Thatās the definition Iāll use for this conversation (at least until further notice). I donāt have an opinion on (or care) whether some particular upcoming technology (like LeCunās āJoint Embedding Predictive Architectureā or whatever) will or wonāt be generally considered āGenerative AIā or just plain-old āAIā or ānot-AIā or whatever.
Sidenote: All the articles that have gone super viral about new drug research breakthroughs from āAIā? Theyāre expecting most readers to think biochemists are asking ChatGPT to design new drugs. (Or at least to not think about it deeply enough to realize that nothing learned from building that kind of AI is going to benefit LLMs or Stable Diffusion algorithms.) Itās just a misleading way to drive up more AI hype.
The investment bubble may collapse on them
There are definitely voices out there saying thatās inevitable. (Ed Zitron one of the most vocal.) And I seriously hope Edās right. But I have to admit that the blockchain bubble hasnāt gone the way I would have expected. The bubble has popped in some sense. Almost nobodyās talking about blockchain any more. The big companies that used to support Bitcoin donāt any more. There isnāt a ridiculous proliferation of projects with shoehorned-in āblockchainā because they canāt get investment without including that term any more. Itās⦠popped.
But⦠Bitcoinās still worth $84,000-ish? Jesus Christ. If I were making predictions, I would have thought the death knell for blockchain would have come in the form of people finally figuring out that Tether was inventing fictitious trillions of USD that didnāt exist and the Tether āstablecoinā going to zero, bringing the whole blockchain ecosystem, resting like a house of cards atop Tether, down with it. Maybe thatāll still happen? Who knows. Whatever the case, Iām glad I donāt have to think about blockchain these days or get buttonholed by my deranged coworkers about it these days.
I donāt think the investment bubble in āAIā is sustainable in the least. But I fear no one can really predict how (nor, unfortunately when) exactly the unrealistic mania will resolve.
but the usage isnāt going anywhere but up.
I mean, the same was true of Beanie Babies, blockchain, subprime mortgages, fiber optics, and tulip bulbs until it wasnāt. Thatās how bubbles work. The promises have to get more unrealistically, unreasonably bold all the time to make sure āline go upā. And dumbass CEOs keep falling for it because all the other CEOs are falling for it and due to FOMO.
I donāt know why you think itās some sort of scam.
Jeez. Where to start.
I guess if I had to pick one thing, probably the biggest issue with LLMs is that getting your employees en masse to outsource their thinking and forget how to think themselves is a losing strategy. Especially when subtle hallucinations are such a problem with LLMs (which I donāt think can be overcome). The evidence that LLMs are causing more problems than theyāre fixing are in, if nothing else, the massive Amazon outages that have resulted because āwhoopsie doopsie the AI deleted the whole IT department and rebuilt it from scratch and the engineers all had their brains switched off from too much LLM use and didnāt prevent it ahead of timeā.
But also, the finances just donāt seem like they can possibly work. The LLMs are all being sold at a ridiculous loss and burning investment capital to fund this ill-conceived experiment. To be actually profitable, OpenAI/Anthropic/etc will have to charge many times what theyāre charging now. And ālocalā LLMs arenāt that much cheaper.
If it was such a scam, companies that have been using it for two years already would be throwing it in the trash
Itās not like we donāt have examples of that. Klarna is one that has scaled back on AI adoption. As is SalesForce with regard to its whole āAgentForceā thing.
and instead theyāre buying up more capacity.
Again. Thatās how bubbles work, until of course they donāt.
I have legitimate business use cases for it today
ā¦or maybe you have a āmildā case of AI psychosis and are ignoring all the drawbacks. Plus, again, if youāre using LLMs today, remember that the pricing scheme youāre observing now is still in the āsell at a sizeable loss to get people hookedā phase and thereās no guarantee people will ever get āhookedā.
and my company canāt get hands on hardware or even available compute from the big players because itās in such high demand.
Itās not like that problem started with AI. What business case do you have for blockchain now-a-days? And when was the last time you bought a graphics card for⦠you know⦠graphics?
But also, companies have bought ridiculous amounts of hardware that they canāt even use because the data centers donāt exist. And the āplansā/promises they make about the rate at which theyāre goig to build data centers are beyond outlandish.
All that to say that the reason you canāt get your hands on software is because OpenAI/Anthropic/Microsoft/etc are hoarding billions of dollars worth of chips that theyāre not even plugging in. A theory that Ed Zitron has put forth is that likely Nvidia has told their buyers that āif you donāt buy this generationās chips, weāll refuse to sell you the next generation chipsā and so the big players in LLMs are buying way more of every generation of chips than they can use so they donāt fall behind because Nvidia is still selling newest-generation chips to their competitors. Nvidiaās just playing into the LLM companiesā bottomless well of FOMO. (Did I say it was a ābubbleā?)
It used to be that most of the compute was going to training models, but that hasnāt been the case for a year now. The majority (and itās increasing fast) is inference at this point and while it doesnāt live up to the āIt will do your entire job and get you firedā itās definitely useful in many situations.
Without hearing more specifically what āsituationsā youāre referring to, I canāt really comment. But any time you have a use case in mind, you should be asking yourself whether it would still be worth it at many times that cost. As well as whether you arenāt sacrificing more (more of your brain, more in terms of the quality of your output, more good will among your presumed customer base) in the long run than youāre getting in value in the short term. Furthermore, I think thereās a lot of danger of kindof losing touch with reality when using LLMs. Theyāre ridiculously sycophantic, and itās not like people arenāt already going into using them with the mindset of outsourcing their thinking to the LLM. AI psychosis is obviously a really stark example, but you donāt have to think youāre the second coming, destined to wed ChatGPT who you āawakenedā and is now your completely conscious soul-mate to have lost enough touch with reality to think LLMs have a use case.
Wow. I ran out of space in that comment, but one more thing I wanted to say. I havenāt talked to speak of about Stable Diffusion and DALL-E (even after including them in my definition of āGenerative AIā). (I guess I should also say that probably Soma qualifies as āGnerative AIā.)
But the short version of why I think those are a scam is because everybody hates everything that comes out of them. Hell, my YouTube-shorts-addicted mother has even been more and more boycotting AI content.
It possibly could but the people running it are doing so for profit.
Okay, say an AI cures cancer. Thatās not just going to be free. Theyāre only going to sell it to people who can afford it, and price it out of reach of working folks.
Stuff like that.
It can be used to solve problems, but itās not going to share the solutions. The person running the AI will get to choose to share it or not.
What bothers me is that we are collectively conflating two very different things when talking about āAIā.
LLMs are inherently evil. They are built on the stolen knowledge of the entire human history, are controlled by the worst people alive and destroy everything they touch, from the environment to peopleās brains.
Machine learning algorithms are actually neat. A specialized algorithm, trained on a specialized dataset, fine tuned and running on a finite number of features, can actually help humanity survey massive amounts of data that would be extremely expensive and time consuming when done manually. It can and is absolutely used for evil (see dynamic pricing, gambling companies etc). But it can also be used for good. And theyāre cheap as fuck to run compared to LLMs. When you hear āAI has solved this and thatā, itās always someone putting the time, effort, knowledge and focus to build something hyper-specialized (unless itās a $10 billion worth of burned credits publicity stunt).
And thatās a shame. Because LLM cunts reap all the publicity because lazy journalism conflate all ML-adjacent work into āAIā.
If you put aside the ethics of how AI got to this level and the environmental costs for mainly doing things humans could have done, the next problem is who is in charge of how itās used. So now that weāre here, the potentials could be good in a few aspects, but power-hungry humans are at the controls, so thatās a big part of the doom and gloom of it being used for worse things, or just misused in general which is what we mostly see.
AI overall (the large grouping that includes but isnāt just LLMs) is a tool, and tools used for good purposes can make big differences. LLMs even have their specific uses that make sense, but thatās been totally overblown and stuffed into every conceivable place, often breaking because itās the wrong tool for the job and was sold to gullible idiots.
āthe environmental costs for mainly doing things humans could have doneā
/me checks how much the environmental costs of humans doing those tasks would beā¦
shocked Pikachu
AI causes a tiny fraction of the environmental impact that a human causes, Humans emit more pollution commuting to offices than the entire datacenter industry will use in the next few years, and transportation is only the third largest way that a human pollutes (on average) with the other two larger cases being home heating/cooling and food consumption.
Iām not saying humans are bad, but you cannot be going around making that comparison that AI is worse for the environment than humans.
The whole who controls it thing is a massive problem, no argument there.
I get your point, but it rests on me having said the data centers will replace all humans, so itās either/or. Itās going to be both, even with reduction in human work force replaced by AI, there will still be people doing people things as well as AI running. And the energy costs! So if AI doesnāt consume that much energy comparably, why are some of them trying to get dedicated nuclear plants?
A) most of the pollution from humans doesnāt come from electricity usage, or more specifically the fossil fuels used to make electricity. It comes from direct fossil fuels used in heating, combustion engines, and industrial processes like making fertilizer. Fossil fuels used to make electricity only make up something like 30-35% of global use.
B) while youāre right that humans donāt go away, the entire datacenter industry right now only uses about 0.5% of global energy. Even if we expanded datacenter enegy use by 10x what we currently have it still makes up about the same total global enegy use as what currently goes to raising cows, and meat production as a whole is about 15% of global energy use.
C) Nuclear plants are pretty clean energy. I donāt have anything wrong with building more of them as long as the costs are transferred to the users properly and there isnāt government/business bullshit downloading externalities to individuals.
If AI was able to run easily on a local computer and still have all that power, then I think the AI world would be a lot more interesting. But now itās just used to kill jobs while also being more expensive and not really much better.
It can, but itās not an accident they made it unaffordable.
It makes me finish my work faster and get more time for my hobbies and some for fun-projects.
Will it ever offset all the negative impacts it has and will continue to have? Pretty certainly not.
Iāll say that you need to read Reverse Centaure.